Author Topic: Accept the Handi for what it is (Read 3262 times)

stimpylu32 · « **on:** May 28, 2007, 08:19:54 AM »

I do understand the mind set of wanting something more but we must learn to except the little Handi for what it is , a low cost single shot rifle that just about anyone can afford .

The Handi was never ment to be a a high preformance , heavy hitter like the Ruger #1 , purly by design it was made to be an easy to produce , low cost to produce rifle based on a shotgun design . Only when we learn what we can expect from the rifles can we truly see the beauty of them.

I for one enjoy the symplisity of the single shot firearm and all the little quirks that come with them , being one that loves to tinker with guns ( can't help myself ) i find the H&R line of guns the perfect platform for this , an at a cost that makes it do-able .

With rounds from the 17M2 to the 45/70 i just see no reason to try to make the Handi something its not . Just the remblings of a Handi-holic .

stimpy

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 28, 2007, 08:31:10 AM »

Stimpy, remember the saying, "be all you can be", that applies to Handis too!!

There's nothing wrong with wanting more for less, it just doesn't always happen.

Tim

burntmuch · « **Reply #2 on:** May 28, 2007, 08:38:37 AM »

These Handi s are perfect for me cheap, simple, perfect little walk thru the woods, sit in a tree gun .
A 1000 dollar gun isnt gunna make me shoot any better

wcf3030 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 28, 2007, 09:04:13 AM »

Each to there own I guess.
If I want a Ruger#1 I'll buy one and not try to make my H&R into one.
I like them because they are inexpensive and I can tinker with them without getting nervous.

myarmor · « **Reply #4 on:** May 28, 2007, 09:12:15 AM »

I have to agree with Stimpy. Even though It's cool to play with new ideas and WildCat calibers and tinkering to make them more accurate, when it comes to squeezing more out of the Handi the limitations are there and noticeable. They should be respected.
I have to admit the whole "12ga from Hell" thread scares me about using an USH, and I am not talking about the recoil

-Aaron

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2007, 09:32:06 AM »

Don't get me wrong . i love my Handi's , it just seems at times people want to do things with them that just can't be done . To truley understand the rifle you must first know what can and can not be done to one and understand the limits of the rifle .

Just a few examples , Trotterlg's attempt to drill the hammer for a hammer spur and Dales ?? about the 416 , both are cases of what can and can not be done with the handi , Larry learned that to drill the hammer you need to annell the hammer first

and Dale learned that the handi frame has its pressure limits . Tim also learned with the 300 that the under lug could be made stronger with just a little work .

stimpy

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2007, 10:14:11 AM »

You're durn right we love our Handis!! Why else would we spend $600-$700 for a custom caliber in a Handi, that we could buy for less in another style/brand of rifle!!

Tim

aulrich · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2007, 11:37:39 AM »

I have to agree my 204 is an OK gopher gun but it is not quite accurate enough remembering the ground squirrels I shoot are half the size of a PD, so I have to admit I perferr my marlin 917 for them, If I was made of money I would have a Savage LRPV in 204 with good glass but that rigged is 2500$ cnd. But as a coyote gun it is fabulous I would be hard pressed to find something to replace it, that would work better. IMHO the best econo predator gun and right up there in the open class too

.

My hornet is working well as a centerfire trainer for my boys and as a trainer it is also hard to bet simple and easy to use and to me that means easy to be safe and have fun. And on the same vein there is a strong rumor that the local legal hunting age is changing from 14 to 12 that means I have at least one maybe two (twins both shoot one a for sure hardcore hunter the other not so much ) needing to be rigged up soon and I could have 2 handis for the price of that ruger compact m77 in 260 that #1 son fell in love with over the weekend. Let alone there brother who is 2 years behind them (in age only he is quite the shot)

As for mods no custom gun work is "worth it" money wise but it is worth it to have what you want as long as you understand the limits of the system.

tvc15 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2007, 11:59:04 AM »

I get no satisfaction from spending 1,000 dollars for a good rifle/scope combo that is hunt ready out of the box.

That is why I play with these guns, I do my own reloading and have a blast. Also started cutting and fletching arrows and tuning my bow instead of paying somebody.

Now when I harvest an animal I get SATISFACTION. TVC15

db22 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2007, 01:02:11 PM »

Quote from: wcf3030 on May 28, 2007, 09:04:13 AM

I like them because they are inexpensive and I can tinker with them without getting nervous.

Agreed! This morning at the range, I noted some progress in making my .357 into an accurate rifle. There's always a next step with the Handi, and it isn't beyond reach (money is very tight around here these days). Tinkering with the gun, trying a new load, spending two hours shooting 20 rounds off the bags on a quiet morning -- it's relatively cheap entertainment for me. When I'm bored to death at work, doing something repetitive, I can think about the next step toward making the little gun consistently accurate.

Dave Petzal commented on his blog (http://fieldandstream.blogs.com/gunnut/2007/04/a_bad_rifle_is_.html) that he considers a rifle to be accurate if it can shoot four or five good groups in a row. My old Rem 700 would do that with almost any load, if I did my part. Where's the challenge in that?

McLernon · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2007, 01:22:43 PM »

I too like the simplicity and price of the Handi, but I can't resist the temptation to try and get them to shoot 1 MOA. They are a pleasure to tinker with but they're tricky to shoot accurately. But as has been said 'they are what they are'-------------tip-up rifles that are NOT inherently accurate. As a matter of fact they are arguably the opposite.
I like the fit and finish for what I paid for my Handi's but I must tell you, at present they are not my 'go-to' guns. For ground hogs I think they need to be 1/2 MOA IMHO.

Would I buy more of them. Yes, but I would go for a carbine in a pistol cartridge that is meant for 'close-in' work.

I hope I have to 'eat-crow' on some the above when(if) I get my 204 shooting properly.

Mc

goodwrench6710 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2007, 02:05:27 PM »

Please don't take me wrong. I'm not saying Handis are bad, they could be alittle better for very little cost to the consumer. I do love my Handi & its $268.00 for a stainless synthetic bull barrel is hard to beat! I know when I do my job, I try to give the customer everything they expect & then some. When I'm done working on a car, I want it to look just like the factory put it together, or sometimes better. But yes, I do agree they are fun & affordable. I just want to see that for future generations too!!!

trotterlg · « **Reply #12 on:** May 28, 2007, 03:50:35 PM »

They are fun to play with, if you distroy one tinkering it is no great loss. I would have a hard time buying one new for new prices, but they can be found cheap at most gun shows and pawn shops. For the price new you can have a new Stevens (Savage) and it will most likely shoot 1 moa out of the box.

superjay01 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 28, 2007, 04:01:39 PM »

I have to agree with Tim on this one, the handi is a great gun to customize. The only problem I have is if there is another customer at the gunsmiths when I drop a barrel off. They always ask me why I'm spending money to customize it. The best I have come up with is because I want to.

canon6 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 28, 2007, 04:59:17 PM »

In my experience firearms as a class are made better/faster/bigger or gooder by two classes. Class one, the likes of JOHN BROWNING, and the second class are all of us gun plumbers that love to work on and tinker with/improve(?) our weapons, and yes it is addictive my2c Doug

Tom W. · « **Reply #15 on:** May 28, 2007, 05:36:20 PM »

I dunno... while I like my Handi's, my Ruger#1's do shoot better, thereby making me shoot better. The challenge in that is the same, developing a load that will put the bullets consistently where you want them to go.

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #16 on:** May 28, 2007, 07:05:30 PM »

I agree with Stimpy. They are what they are. I've been playing with mine for a year now, new stocks, new sights etc., but it's still a Handi. I'm real happy with what I ended up with, it'll be a functional piece of hunting equipment, that I enjoy shooting, after all, I made it just for me. If I take it down to the local gunshop to trade it for something, they'll probably give me a couple hundred towards the trade..., but it's worth more to me than that to me, I finished what the factory started. It's fun being a home-gunsmith. This Handi rfle of mine is more than I ever expected, but I don't expect it to do more than it was designed to.

>>>===> Dave

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 28, 2007, 07:38:57 PM »

Well...I enjoy my 338-06 A-Square..and it gives me more than what a Handi rifle is supposed to by all accounts...Yes...I know the rifle's limitations very well..and don't try to over stress it all the time..but for most of my shooting with it...it goes way beyond the norm for the cartridge...The barrel lug will only withstand so much till it fails..especially with some of the weak lugs that have been installed of late...How fast we push it there is an individual thing really...but wanting more from them is something quite a few of us has been after for a long long time...and at a considerable expense...

Recoil impulse and case head size are critical to a friction fit lock up..which these rifles have...all the while having to maintain the integrity of the frame and lug which these rifles need more than other types of lock ups.... It is a balancing act to make different cartridges work properly..Not all cartridges will work correctly..no matter what you do...When folks look at magnum cases and say why can't I...I know they don't understand these rifles and how some cartridges will load stress it differently...and what really keeps the rifle from opening...They are only looking at how fast they can push the bullet...

Is it wrong to want more from a Handi..I don't think so...Will I accept it in it original form and be happy with what they give me...NO...but what I will do is to work within the rifles limitations and reap the benefits I gain on the changes I make to them...They can be improved...If I want something that the Handi's can't or won't give..I'll buy another make of single shot if I want it in that configuration...

Mac

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #18 on:** May 28, 2007, 07:46:52 PM »

Mac, you can do what ever you want to with them and make them everything they can be, but when the guy in the pawnshop looks it up in the "book", it's just a Handi...

>>>===> Dave

Inrut24/7 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2007, 01:58:49 AM »

I have always wanted a heavy barrel bolt Varminter, but untill my 223 ultra quits shooting dime sized groups i have no need to spend the money, Im very happy with the way they shoot for the money spent, People buy a stevens 200 for about the same price and customize them by putting shilen barrels and fancy stocks on. The guns are in the same price range and in my eyes theres nothing wrong with customizing a handi, I will probally never do more to a handi than switch the stocks around and play with o rings, But when i see a custom caliber handi on here i think its pretty darn cool.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2007, 05:18:10 AM »

Quote from: Dave Weiss on May 28, 2007, 07:46:52 PM

Mac, you can do what ever you want to with them and make them everything they can be, but when the guy in the pawnshop looks it up in the "book", it's just a Handi...

>>>===> Dave

Who said you have to sell it to someone who will only give you 35-50% of what any gun is worth... like most pawn shops do to begin with ? I don't deal with places like that.. I've bought and sold a bunch of Handi's...and have never lost any significant amount on any of them..I don't know how you do it..but I don't consider what I can "hock" them for at a pawn shop..their actual worth especially when I can sell them to an interested individual for what I have in it or what I can trade it in for and get a good deal on something higher priced..........Yes..there are some things you can do to them that you won't re-coup full value when you go to trade them in..but if you know how to wheel & deal..you won't come out too bad at most places I frequent...Then there are other things that can be done to them that some folks are looking for and are willing to pay to have...certain calibers..certain stock sets..certain scopes..A-lot will depend on when your selling it..what was done to it...who did the work...and the quality of work done to it..and also who you sell it to..or where you trade it and what you trade it in on....You can't expect to sell a homemade camouflaged stocked brush beater Handi that has a beat up Trasco scope in aluminum rings for what you could on one that has a immaculate custom exhibition grade stock set built for it and has a perfect Leupold in a set of QRW's sitting on it...do you?? It doesn't work that way... Bottom line...Your the one who is selling them...you decide what they sell for..and to who...If you don't know how to price something to sell outright to an individual or how to haggle successfully on a trade at a dealer for the actual worth of your Handi...who's fault is that? You have to find the right market for what your selling...Don't buy and sell at a place that doesn't take the extras into account...

Mac

myarmor · « **Reply #21 on:** May 29, 2007, 06:37:06 AM »

Yeap, no real need to sell any extra Handi goods to a Pawn shop or local dealer when there are so many Handi owners here that will be more than happy buying or trading with you for a fair deal.
Everyone has a project going at sometime or other, and always need an extra stock, receiver, or a donor barrel

dw06 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2007, 08:38:54 AM »

I have rifles that outshoot my handi pretty easy,but for the price its fun,very durable,simple,accurate,best woods walking rifle for me,and right purdy in its own way.And its the one I grab and use 90% of the time,so guess I'm hooked!

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2007, 03:46:17 PM »

I wasn't suggesting that anyone try to sell their rifle (or anything for that matter) at a pawn shop. I was trying to make an analogy. I bought my Handi 45-70 for $234 brand new, I've bought, sold and traded a variety of stocks. I've changed the sights a few times. I've easily got a couple more hundred into it, I'm ok with that. I have MY rifle the way that I want it. Have I increased the value of my gun? Maybe. Could I recoup the money I've spent? NO. Am I happy and satisfied with what I've done? Absolutely!
I don't believe that Handi's are "generation" rifles, they'll wear out if you shoot them too much and therefore would be wary about paying too much for somebody else's "special" Handi.
If you have enough money or time and knowledge, you can do anything you want with a Handi, except make it anything but a Handi...

>>>===> Dave

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** May 29, 2007, 07:12:20 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on May 28, 2007, 03:50:35 PM

For the price new you can have a new Stevens (Savage) and it will most likely shoot 1 moa out of the box.

Maybe, maybe not. The Stevens 200 is not without its problems too. $:-\$

Tim

Quote

For almost two years now I've been a Savage Stevens advocate.Looking at things objectively, however, things (me) are changing.

The 12VBss-s shoots like a charm. The accutrigger hangs up or sticks about every fourth or fifth shot. One of my four Stevens Mod 200s does the same thing, with the old style trigger.

Two maybe three of the Stevens had feeding problems. The 22-250 was so unmanagable I cobbled up a single shot follower for it. Two of them when actuating the bolt allowed the cartridge to jump up so the rear end of the case was higher than the bolt and would jam. Intentionally rapidly ( really fast) slaming the bolt forward helped a lot. Slow? Forget it.

My .270 Stevens suffers dramaticly from bore fouling.

For shooting paper I guess these problems are livable. For dependable field rifles they do not measure up. I'm sure with a little work the situuations can be bettered but for someone to take the rfiles out of the box and be used reliably it's a crap shoot. roger

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 29, 2007, 07:17:24 PM »

Quote

Could I recoup the money I've spent? NO.

Ok...Why couldn't you? In case you didn't know...No one says you have to sell it for a loss...and most of the guys here know if it is a shooter...it is real easy to re-coup your money out of it...Heck...if it didn't sell here at GBO on the Handi classifieds..(part it out and put it up for sale...see how long it would take to sell it...)..you can still part it out and sell it elsewhere and most likely make a profit on it...and this is for a stock rifle...Folks have done just that already...several times...add in a set of properly finished custom stocks..or hard to come by laminates...they would be gone in a flash..Look at the classifieds and at e-bay...If this is more trouble than it is worth to you...well..I'm sorry...but..I just plain don't agree with your opinion...You don't know until you try...

Mac

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #26 on:** May 29, 2007, 08:04:58 PM »

Mac, I'm really not trying to argue with you, but nobody's going to and I don't expect anyone to pay me for my mistakes. Check the GBO classifieds. Straight grip, straight comb camo lam stock $53 plus shipping with a decelerator pad installed $55, that's $108 to me, IF I sell it for $70 and pay $9.95 shipping... XS Ghost ring $125 new for sale at half price, no takers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, these are things that I thought would make MY Handi the perfect rifle, they just didn't work out exactly like I'd invisioned. I'll stick 'em in a drawer before I'll mess with E-bay.

>>>===> Dave

Mac11700 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 30, 2007, 04:14:18 AM »

Quote from: Dave Weiss on May 29, 2007, 08:04:58 PM

Mac, I'm really not trying to argue with you, but nobody's going to and I don't expect anyone to pay me for my mistakes. Check the GBO classifieds. Straight grip, straight comb camo lam stock $53 plus shipping with a decelerator pad installed $55, that's $108 to me, IF I sell it for $70 and pay $9.95 shipping... XS Ghost ring $125 new for sale at half price, no takers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining, these are things that I thought would make MY Handi the perfect rifle, they just didn't work out exactly like I'd invisioned. I'll stick 'em in a drawer before I'll mess with E-bay.

>>>===> Dave

Dave..I understand...and am not taking any offense to this conversation..I'm just trying to offer some alternatives to ya...

Your XS sight set should sell for a-lot more than that..Since you can't sell it here...have you checked with the guys at Marlin Owners http://www.marlinowners.com/board/..they know full well what the sites are worth and many there would probably give you way more than 50% for a new set...

As too you stock set..I am quite surprised folks here didn't want it...The straight laminated ones usually go for much more than what you asked for them..especially if like new and not scratched up..and if they have some good pictures to see what they look like..would draw more interest in them..Some may balk at paying the $55 for the decelerator pad..when the Limb Savers are the preferred choice of many..so you may have to east at least the installation cost on it..but I can assure you that many here know they do a real good job and have done so for years...As to the shipping cost...I won't eat the cost for it unless I am in a big hurry to sell an item..or just doing some one a favor..

E-bay is a turn off to many..but a valid way of moving items for sale...There are other alternatives besides it though..There are things you may want to trade for so that you can re-coup your money other ways too...

Mac

mookster79 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 30, 2007, 07:07:20 AM »

I am not an avid hunter as some of the people on this site are. I do some ground hog shooting, but stick more to clay birds and cutting paper. Everyone sees there guns for what they are and it all comes down to what you can make them do. I bought the handi for a couple of reasons. One was the cost, and is probably the biggest reason. I was able to buy a lot more scope than if I had gone with the ruger or many other manufacturers. This alone made it a great varmint gun. I got lucky and did basically nothing but try different factory loads and have it shooting sub moa at 100 yds all day long.
The second reason for the handi was just wanting a single shot rifle. A lot of people say buy a bolt for the extra rounds, but I appreciate just having one shot. It makes me better. Having to wait for the right shot and knowing that missing means a good chance of not getting another shot on your target. The barrel program and all that is available for them is great, but I like whole guns. When I need a new caliber I would bet that I will be looking at the handi first.
Point is if I wanted the expensive show off rifle I would have gotten it, just didn't make sense. I have no problem spending money when it comes to firearms. I guess stimply has a point and everyone can accept them for what they are.

Sourdough · « **Reply #29 on:** May 30, 2007, 10:46:41 AM »

I bought my first Handi as a spare gun for Moose camp. I had always carried my TCR with shotgun barrel in the track rig for shooting grouse on the way in. The 30-06 barrel and a box of shells were kept there also, as back up if I needed a spare gun. While I was out hunting one day someone borrowed it, and when I got it back it had several dings and scratches, on the reciever. I decided no one else was going to do that again, I needed something cheap that I would not care if it got scratched or dinged by other people. So I bought a 30-06 Handi, and loved that ejector. I immediately sent it back for a 20ga shotgun barrel. I then started carrying it as a spare gun for anyone to use. When I went to sight it in I realised it was just as accurate as my TCR, which is saying a lot. I started carrying it on the snow machine during the winter, and when my partner killed a wolf at 1000 yards (Lucky Shot) with it I got serious about making it my primary hunting gun. I removed the cheap Simmons scope I had bought to go on the cheap gun. I then replaced it with a Bushnell Elite. Before long I realised I needed more scope, then an accident wiped out the Bushnell. I then went with a Shepard scope 6X18 V-2. I had a winning combination, a gun that could reach out and touch something beyond 300 yards, and a scope to match. Soon I was reaching on out to 500 and 600 yards often, and the little Handi was holding them right where I wanted them. I moved on out to 700 yards and discovered the 30-06 cartridge losses too much velocity at that range. When I did hit at that range, clean kills were not happening, so I now limit the Handi to 500 yards or less. It's not the guns fault, the gun will hit at 700 yards, but the cartridge won't perform at that range. When I go out now the Weatherby is along in a case strapped to the rack, but the Handi is on the Handlebars.